An Interview with Tiffanie Williams
As Tiffanie and I began our interview, our time was limited because at the conclusion of our interview, we had a leadership meeting scheduled with the founding members of the EVOS organization. Tiffanie, as it turns out, had another meeting scheduled after our leadership meeting. We were focused on getting each question answered in completion while also being very aware of the time. The life of women in business.
In conducting research on the interviewee and asking the questions below, I learned things about Tiffanie’s life that were unknown to me, which is a great outcome of conducting interviews. Each person I have been lucky enough to interview thus far, has provided new insight into their lives as investors, personal and business relationships and as individual people.
Pamela: How did you end up selecting Mercyhurst College?
Tiffanie: I went to a performing arts high school. My major was dance. Up until the age of 19, all I wanted to do was dance. I wanted to major in ballet. Many of the universities dance programs not far from Pittsburgh do not focus on ballet, but modern dance. At the end of my freshman year at Mercyhurst, I decided I was not going to continue to dance. I auditioned in New York for some programs and saw how good and how great the dancers were. I felt like I was good, but not great. Back then, you did not see a lot of people of color, specifically, women of my height in ballet. I knew that would always be a deterrent. I knew that would make it even harder for me. Since I felt like I was good, but not great, I had to look inside myself and ask if I should continue on this journey. Ultimately, I decided not to continue. I still debate if it was a good decision. I’ve always wished that I either worked for a dance company in an administrative role or started my own dance school as that has always been a passion for me.
Pamela: I never knew you wanted to be a dancer.
Tiffanie: Yes, but at 5’10” you don’t often see ballet or modern dancers as tall. One of my role models back then was Judith Jamison of the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theatre. She was a tall dancer. I remember meeting her and oh my gosh!
Pamela: I understand that point.
Tiffanie: I still get asked if I play basketball. (laughing).
Pamela: What made you decide EVOS was a good investment for you?
Tiffanie: I think I was excited about a group of individuals who are working to build black wealth. As we know it’s important. Working in underrepresented communities and providing products for our people is what got me excited about working with EVOS.
Pamela: You studied business at Mercyhurst and chose the nonprofit sector as your career focus. What were the indicators for your career track? I know you said your mom was an accountant and you did not necessarily need to be an accountant, but business is still something to use and apply in the nonprofit sector.
Tiffanie: In my twenties I was not completely sure of what I wanted to do. Again, I knew dance was my thing and it’s all I thought about for years. When that was gone, it was heartbreaking. When I got out of school I was trying to figure out the type of woman I would be. I was taking on jobs, paying the bills, looking for an apartment and being on my own. Any opportunity that came my way I took it. I got a temporary job with Allegheny Conference. Allegheny Conference is an economic development nonprofit in Pittsburgh. That was the first time I felt like I was around a lot of smart people. They were people that would not have necessarily walked in my path. There were people on the board that were civic minded. I was meeting CEO’s that I would not think I would be in a room with. I do not believe anyone else in the office was a person of color. That was totally different for me and very intimidating.
Thankfully, I had a really good mentor. She showed me the ropes. There were a lot of projects I was involved in. I learned a lot. I felt like I was working somewhere worthwhile, but I wasn’t particularly passionate about the work. It was the first time that I didn’t feel like I was just working a 9-5 to pay my bills.
I then got the opportunity to work at the Hill House Association which was a totally different organization. I went from working in a predominately all white organization to a social service organization where most of the employees were African American. It was a different experience. The CEO at the time was young. He came from the corporate sector. I knew he was going to do great things at the organization, and I was excited about that.
I recall we were celebrating the 40th anniversary of the organization and I was a part of the event planning efforts for the celebratory event. I walked away excited because it helped me realize I might like being an event planner. I began as an executive assistant to the CEO, working closely with the executive team and board. I then moved quickly into a communications and events manager position within two years. My tenure there was fantastic. I loved the employees and loved the mission. I had a good mentor who pushed me to do more. She told me, “I think events are your niche.”
When I moved to Chicago, I knew I wanted a job in events at a nonprofit. I was not seeking an executive assistant position or communications manager role. I saw an events management job online. I did not know anything about the organization’s mission or work, but the job description spoke to me as I knew I could do all the things listed. I got the job at Landmarks Illinois and have been working there ever since. I am now a director with the organization and supervise the events manager.
Pamela: It seems like you kind of knew. The transition from Allegheny Conference to the Hill House Association and being able to have access to mentors who supported you and your career helped you solidify certain components of your career.
Tiffanie: I always strongly encourage young women to find mentors, male or female. It’s nice to have someone who sees your talents. They see things in you that you may or may not see yourself and they can push you out of your comfort zone.
Pamela: That’s a good thing. Even in anger and strife you meet the challenges. It helps you continue to build on what they see and also discover who you are. It’s great you’re in a director role. You’ve made career transitions. Before Landmarks Illinois you worked for the Institute of Real Estate Management in Chicago.
Tiffanie: Yes, I was hired at IREM before moving to Chicago to work in their meetings and board governance departments. However, within the first few months, I knew I needed to find another job. It wasn’t fulfilling. I met people at IREM I am still good friends with that I would not have met if I did not get that opportunity.
Pamela: As an investor and a woman in business, how do you think this experience or any trajectory impacts or disrupts the traditional system?
Tiffanie: I had a hard time with this one. Explain what you’re asking.
Pamela: In a patriarchal society, we can still talk about “firsts” in 2023. Are there still glass ceilings we have to combat?
Tiffanie: Yes, we still live in a society built on privilege and white males are dominantly leading many aspects of our society. There’s some statistics out there that sound really good for women of color. Unfortunately, black men are lagging behind. We need to work with our men to figure that out. We have a long way to go. I don’t think I will see it in my lifetime. I don’t know if you will see it in your lifetime. Hopefully, the next generation will see it in theirs. As people of color, we are still challenged in that way. Unfortunately, many of our black men are in prisons and it hurts our black families. There are women and women of color who are pushing through glass ceilings. When those women are entering spaces we haven’t been, they leave the door open for others.
Pamela: What has been your experience in an investing firm? Advantages or disadvantages.
Tiffanie: I’m not quite sure at this point. The company has not been around long enough to have an understanding of what it’s going to fully be. Some members are more active than others so I’m curious about the impact.
Pamela: Would you say you are living and doing what you expected outside of dance?
Tiffanie: When we are young, in middle school and high school, we have these dreams of what our lives will be like as adults. We have these ideals as women about where we will be at certain points in our lives. If we aren’t at this place by 25, 30, 35, 40, we aren’t living our true lives. We need to stop that. I feel like in my twenties, I was still trying to find my way. There are times now, as I’m close to fifty, I’m still trying to feel my way and that is okay. It’s not a bad thing. Right now and quite honestly since the Hill House, I’ve been doing what I enjoy. That is a privilege. I know everyone does not get to do what they want to do. There are people who are working nine to five or eleven to seven who are not doing what they thought they would be doing. This helps me recognize the privilege I have in that way.
Pamela: There’s a lot of grace and favor in a place that has mentors that truly support and want to see you at your best. I think being in a space where that type of opportunity exists is a blessing because it’s not always the reality.
Tiffanie: I definitely know I’m not a majority and I appreciate where I’m at right now.
Pamela: Maybe it's the nonprofit sector. A close alignment with the mission of the nonprofit and it kind of flows that way.
Tiffanie: I don’t know if you can work in a nonprofit and not be passionate about the work you’re doing.
Pamela: You touched on the Hill House and the differences between a women led organization versus an organization led by a person from a different sector. What are/were the differences?
Tiffanie: One thing I do want to note is if you do not have a good leader at a nonprofit that leader can totally devastate an organization. You do not know how much power a person has until you have the wrong person in that position. And this has nothing to do whether they are male or female or how they identify. I’m not one that thinks I will ever lead a nonprofit. It’s a tough job. You have to be a people person. You have to understand how to fundraise for the organization. I’ve worked for nonprofits where the leaders were great, a couple of them were even young CEO’s.
Landmarks Illinois has a staff of eleven and was a staff of nine and ten for quite some time. When you work for a very small nonprofit all employees have to be “A” and “B+” employees. Anything short of that, an employee can halt the flow and work in some ways.
When I received a promotion a couple of years ago, I was not looking for it. However, I was excited that my work was seen and leadership honored it with a promotion.
Pamela: That’s a great thing. I had in mind the nonprofit you work at was a tad bit larger than a staff of ten. Based on having a small staff the grant writing has to be very precise unless there are funds specifically earmarked legislatively for your organization. Based on the name, I assume you’re working with some significant buildings.
Tiffanie: Yes, absolutely. We call ourselves, people saving places for people. We are trying to make sure that places in our communities that are important to people are around for as long as they can be. The organization is small, but our board is very large. A lot of the board members volunteer their expertise. Without that it would probably be tough.
Pamela: It’s interesting that the board is bigger than the staff.
Tiffanie: We have thirty-five board members and most are very active. We have a young professionals committee that I staff and that’s roughly fifty with half of them being super active. We rely on their expertise a lot.
Pamela: You’ve lived in Chicago for several years. How does that compare to Pittsburgh? What has/have been your biggest adjustments?
Tiffanie: Career wise, I do not think I would have had the same opportunities as I’ve had here. I probably wouldn’t be making the amount of money I make either. I can’t say it’s due to the cost of living. Before I left Pittsburgh, I didn’t see many African American women leading companies or in executive leadership roles. You get to a certain point in leadership, no matter if it’s a nonprofit or a corporation and you are no longer growing, you are stuck. You are no longer going up that ladder and I feel that’s the biggest difference. When I got to Chicago and my husband felt the same, there were a lot of African American leaders doing well. I feel you don’t see that in Pittsburgh. I’ve been gone from Pittsburgh for over 10 years now so I will not state with certainty that is still the case.
I’ll also say in Chicago, there is a big wage gap. There’s a lot of people doing well and many who are not. 30% of the population in Chicago is African American and 19-20% in Pittsburgh. We have a huge Latin X population that’s probably another 30%. Culturally, we have a lot of things Pittsburgh doesn’t have just because the city is larger. I can’t be certain, but I do feel I would have stayed stuck in Pittsburgh, had I not moved. If anybody in Pittsburgh were to say to me (I’m referring to people of color) because whites are doing well in the city, “Should I stay here? Should I raise my family here?” I would tell them to move to other places in the country with more opportunities for us to build wealth. I know there are people in Pittsburgh who are working to change those things, which I’m excited about.
Pamela: Thank you for perspective. We know certain places you will not be able to do well for so many reasons. You know a lot of movers and shakers so your perspective is important.
Tiffanie: That’s intimidating too. You see people doing amazing things and you feel good about yourself, but in comparison they are doing tremendous things and definitely building black wealth for their families.
Pamela: Do you have a personal motto or vision in life and how does our organization participate in the overall process?
Tiffanie: This one is tough. I don’t know if I have a motto. My husband always says we are put on this earth to serve others, serve our communities and strengthen our families. Quite honestly, I want to be the best person I can be. I want to pay it forward the best way I can. Right now, I feel I’m doing my life's work and want to be doing more. There are things I said I want to be doing and believe me those things do not go away. I don’t think I will ever be too old to look back and say I want to give that a shot.
Pamela: We don’t always spell it out, but live it out. How does that get spread to other people as it does not always come the way it should come, but it always goes the way it should go.
Tiffanie: We don’t necessarily know the impact of what we put out into the world. I’m sure my mentors don’t know I think of them in an inspirational way.
Pamela: Do you have any projects or ideas you would like to share with our readers?
Tiffanie: I can’t think of anything right now that I want to share.
Tiffanie stated Anthony looked at her as though that’s not all. As for our interview, it was time to wind down and prepare for the next meeting.
We continued for a few minutes. Tiffanie, a passionate dance artist, and a hardworking individual, has a lot of ideas. I’m sure we will hear from her a lot more in the future. Tiffanie went on to state another passion is health in the black community as it relates to taking care of ourselves and being aware of our bodies. A lot of us are dying young, cancers, women dying during childbirth and it’s clear we all have challenges to overcome.
As we dive into these specific health challenges and continue preparing to address them through SoulEd Solutions, a subsidiary of EVOS Investment Company, we are building an organization committed to doing our part to understand and improve.